CFR Survey Results - July 2018
Page 1: Our community
Result: It looks like we definitely skew significantly toward simulationists, although most players seem to fall somewhere into the compromise middle.
I was particularly interested to see that there were more pure strategists than pure simulationists.
Finally, we averaged out at 65% for when we feel there's a strong enough support for some sort of rule change, so that's what we'll go with.
Page 2: When is Table Talk Appropriate?
Some of the Comments
- It is OK if it is for a couple of turns, but not for the whole race.
- I am a bigger fan of "Fury of Dracula" style coordination: anything you have to say to another player should be said at the table, in full view and auditory range of the other players. Racing teams talk, drivers know each other, and so forth. If you want to coordinate your move with someone else, by all means do so, but bear in mind that everyone will see that you've done so, with all of the baggage that comes along with that. You want to trade slips? Ok, but I may not take kindly to that and may stuff you when I'm given the chance. And, of course, nothing is binding, so I may agree to a slip swap and then leave you hanging when it's my turn. Everything has a social cost.
- Vague statements like "I'm not doing anything stupid here" that do not give specific information, probably OK. Direct statement like "You do 80, I'll do 60 and we both clear the corner" is a complete no-no. Without the mystery of not knowing what other driver's are (specifically) doing, there is no game. People should have to guess whether someone is going to try to jump them to the corner and blow up their spot. People should have to at least consider spending W defensively. And the double slip reach-around is a no-no.
- Absolutely not! This potentially gives them an advantage over others in the race!
- Commentary for all above situations is for player to player conversation. Under no circumstances should players be communicating game rules, moves or strategies with kibitzers or other non-players (except when asking the GM a rules question).
- I should be able to pull in front of some one I pass in the hope to get a slip from him later in the race.
- Inquiries are fine as long as there is no expectations of a response or of a bullying nature. All discussions should be public. No smoke-filled, back room conversations.
- I don't particularly like it. If it's done without actual discussion, then it's hard to call. For instance, a car passing another on a long straight with a double slip, dropping in front of the car he just passed, is really an open invitation. But he didn't say anything, so how do you call it?
- While I personally don’t like this type of play, I believe that players will often find a way so it is much better to have it out in the open as this should then allow the rest of the table to determine how to counteract it. If it is subtle or just suspected, this will likely lead to worse problems than the original issue.
- This is a tentative yes as this is a slippery slope. I feel a player can ask another player to make a certain move, the other player is in no way obligated to follow that request even if he has "agreed" to it. Coordinated blocking or sequential slipping -Too much coordination as this begins to resemble team play.
- With the exception of planning for one or both cars to slow down and block the track. If two drivers want to help each other go faster, that's fine, but moves that delberiately slow down other drivers is not a good thing for a race game.
- While it’s ok to ask, it’s also ok to decline to answer. But lying should be out.
- As a simulationist I'm aware that in real life cars can cooperate to gain an advantage over the rest of the field, but it's no done by the drivers or crew chiefs radioing back and forth, it's more both drivers recognize the possibility and INDEPENDENTLY make the moves that make it happen. If one of them doesn't recognize the opportunity then its lost. So in game terms I think the rule needs to be strict, no communication to cooperat
- The whole fun is in predicting what others are doing. Game is totally uninteresting if the coordination problems can be resolved through talking.
It seems as though everyone is perfectly fine with helping out new players, but not so cool with discussing moves outside of that. And we are very much against direct coordination of moves.
As such, what we'll do this year at WBC is continue to play the way we always have, but with a reminder to everyone not to coordinate or collude. That said, I'm not interested in becoming the
table-talk police, or start a policy of DNF-ing players. So for now, enforcement of this policy will be social, as suggested by someone in the comments.
If you think someone is coordinating, call them on it. Or start playing more agressively where said player is concerned.
Page 3: Slips and Double Slips
Some of the Comments
- Just remove double slips. They create more problems than they're worth, and unfairly penalize buying a high top speed in the first place.
- I love this game no matter what. It's made me into a huge F1 fan.
- as long as double slips are part of the game, trading slips should be allowed.
- This tends to drift back to hidden teams and table talk. If no talk is allowed, then the double slip should probably not be restricted. However, how that can be properly moderated may be something of a challenge.
- I believe that real racers often work together to make up ground or maintain their advantages and attempts to stop that will lead to unintended consequences, including the sub-optimal positions that you mentioned.
- It is hard for me to judge in a vacuum. But the person getting the first double slip should be smart enough to not land in the same lane as the person they slipped from. That's borderline collusion, as it giving the follow up slip doesn't benefit the person that allows it to happen.
- As a simulationist I struggle with the trading of double slips, it happens in real racing, but in our game I think it could be problematic. As for letting the faster trailing car get a slip, that's not the current rule is it? I'm pretty sure I've been denied slips in that situation. Bottom line, simulation or not, I disapprove of drivers explicitly cooperating. I'd be willing to give up the double slip or other features if they are open to abuse by drivers cooperating.
Result: We pretty clearly don't like any of the suggested slip changes, so slip rules will not be changing this year in any meaningful way.